Blindness with Cori Perlander

We spend time with Cori as she shares what everyday life looks like navigating blindness as a professional, parent, and strategist. Cori reflects on losing vision over time and how it has shaped her career, identity, mental health, and approach to problem‑solving, while emphasizing the role of adaptability and self‑advocacy. The conversation explores assistive technology, accessibility barriers, parenting, workplace accommodations, and the social assumptions that often accompany disability. Through honesty, humor, and lived experience, Cori offers a powerful reminder that blindness is not one‑dimensional, but a deeply personal experience marked by resilience, capability, and ambition.

Transcript

Cori 0:01

My perspective is just I'm an open book. I love to share my story, good, bad, ugly, like whatever. It it helps someone else better understand, and maybe they can apply that to others who have differences similar to me or totally not similar. You know, a difference is a difference, and a person is a person. So learn to apply curiosity across all those different scenarios.

Taylor 0:29

Welcome to the Accessible Community Podcast, where we will be exploring disability, aging, and accessibility through lived experiences. Join us to deepen your understanding in these areas, and for show notes, you can find them at accessiblecommunity.org slash podcasts. Be accessible and be inclusive. Welcome everyone to another episode of Day in the Life. And today we're conducting our last interview for blindness, which I'm excited about because I myself also have blindness. So I've enjoyed all these so far, and we may end up doing it again down the road, so we'll see. Uh, we also have our newest episodes being recorded right now on multiple sclerosis. So if you're interested in that, make sure you keep an eye out for our next uh next month of Day in Life. So with that, I will introduce my last guest for blindness for this month. But before I turn it over to her, a quick introduction for myself. I'm your host for this series, Taylor Dorward, and I am a white male with short brown hair, blue eyes, and a short brown beard. Uh today I'm wearing a light yellow undershirt with a pattern grayish flannel over top. And I'm really excited for today's interview. And before we get into the nitty-gritty, I will turn it over to Corey and allow her to introduce herself.

Cori 2:02

Awesome. Thank you, Taylor. I should have definitely gotten confirmation on my colors going on here.

Taylor 2:09

Um I don't know what for me it can be guesswork. Some like uh I recorded one one time and they were like, you have a blue shirt on. I was like, oh.

Cori 2:18

Well, you're gonna totally, I'm kind of like derailing this, but the the whole audio just or description of yourself, like I'm it's so awkward to me because as a blind person, and of course, like once you've met a blind person, you've met a blind person, right? Everyone is different, they have their own needs, but like I usually don't care about who I'm like what a person looks like, right? I'm blind, like I just want to get to chatting and all that stuff. But I notice like it's definitely a trend and totally respect this, you know, since this this format. Um, but sometimes I wonder, I'm like, I wonder if this was like decided by a person who sees and they just wanted to explain how they look, or I don't know, I get all sidetracked. But anyway, for those of you who would like to know what I look like, um I am female, Caucasian, uh long dark brown hair. Oh yeah, brown eyes, um, olive. I think I have that's what I was not sure of, like a green or bluish color mock neck turtleneck situation that I got on sale. I like to shop, love my good deals, got some pearl earrings, 90% sure they're the same earring. Um, again, not too sure. But uh anyway, great to be here with you, Taylor.

Taylor 3:35

Yeah, absolutely. And I I've ironic or not ironically, but interestingly enough, I haven't really discussed that kind of aspect with any of the interviewees for blindness.

Cori 3:47

Yeah.

Taylor 3:47

Because I think some like a lot of people, especially who don't have blindness, never really understand how something as simple as understanding what you're wearing and getting dressed can be challenging.

Cori 3:59

Oh, you're not kidding.

Taylor 4:01

Yeah.

Cori 4:01

Like for me, I um again, I big shopper. I love to shop, love sales, um, and quick background. My my vision, um, I saw perfect till age 10, and then between uh then and now, I'm now 43, vision's deteriorated. I have maybe like, I don't know, 5% peripheral vision, not much. All that being said, I started to realize I would memorize the colors of my clothes, whether and my purses and my shoes and my jewelry. And I was able to keep up with it because you know, as a blind person, you gotta remember quite a bit. Um, but then once I had kids, it was like overload. I I could not remember all of their colors and their accessories. And so that's when I really had to buckle down and you know, get the technology involved, get systems and organizations involved. Um, so very, very important stuff. And yeah, I by no means want to trivialize because yes, describing it's it's so frustrating too, because as a person that works primarily remotely, we're on calls like this all day long. And there will often be times where you're in a group chat conversation and everyone will start laughing and you're like, what, what'd I miss? You know, because there was no um audio description of it. It was just something visual that they saw and you you feel left out, right? So in no form or you know, fashion do I want to leave anyone out or leave any questions, right? I love curiosity. That's I think important to always be able to, you know, feed or give people what they're wondering about.

Taylor 5:44

Yeah, I love that. Like for me, like organization is one of my greatest assets because, like you said, like it can be challenging, like understanding colors and remembering where things are. So I've spent hours and hours organizing all my clothes. Like, I I love fashion, I love to look good. I have a lot of shoes and a lot of lot of clothes, so I make sure it's separated winter and like fall and summer, and then color coordinated, and and because something as simple as that can greatly enhance my independence, and then god forbid, someone comes to my room and like moves stuff around. Oh my niece gets into my stuff, and I'm like, I love the evil. Well, where'd you put this? Like, yes, that's a huge skill. Something could be moved like two feet away, and like my the way my brain perceives image, like that's right, it's like invisible to me.

Cori 6:45

Correct. I mean, you're literally going through motions, like you put your hand in a certain position, you know, and you know that it's a memory, it's it's just a memory, it's a move and a memory that you know, you know where the drawers are, you pull it out to a certain degree, you move it to a certain degree, and when something's not there, okay, where'd it go? So, yes, as my family has grown, my chaos has grown, no doubt, with organization.

Taylor 7:12

So nice, yeah. I I certainly uh get that feeling. So you've you shared a good bit about it, but could you tell us some more about yourself, just like your background, what got you into doing what you're doing?

Cori 7:27

And yeah, sure, sure. Um, so about my blindness, um I saw it as cited individual C till the age of 10. And kind of interesting story. I'll I'll call it interesting. Um, when my mom was pregnant with my sister, we're 10 years apart. That's so happens when I started to notice that in sixth grade, sitting in the front row, I I could not see the chalkboard, the words on the chalkboard, we had overhead projectors back then. I'm dating my age. Um anyway, mom took me to a doctor. She um and I were in the room with the doctor. The doctor looked at my eyes, didn't comment, and she asked my mom to step out of the room. And she said, Listen, little girl, you're the most abnormal child I've ever seen. You are lying, you see totally fine, and you're just jealous because your mom is pregnant with another baby. Um, I still remember that feeling like of shock. I mean, you're 10 years old, you're like trying to figure out the world, and I no one in my life had ever like accused me or told me that's just I'm not, I'm not that kind of kid. My mom knew I wasn't a liar, um, just textbook 10-year-old kid. So, regardless, we she got me this very um mild prescription. We went to the eyeglass door. The person at the eyeglass place said, Okay, put on the glasses. And I still was excited, you know. I'm like, okay, now I'm gonna see. And they were like, read the license plate in the parking lot. And I still couldn't see anything. And I'm like, mom, I can't see anything. And so she knew something wasn't right. And so I was able to get in to see a retinal specialist, and they did determine that I have I had Stargards disease, which is the juvenile form of macular degeneration that would, you know, have that central vision deteriorate. But I was hopeful that my peripheral vision would still be there and and get get me around. I I never I don't remember feeling like, oh my gosh, scared, or it just wasn't it was different. I think as a younger kid, it was like, wait, what? I'm not gonna be able to drive. Like that was the biggest frustration to me as I got older. But um anyway, move forward to my 20s. I went back to a specialist to get more testing done, and they determined that it was more aggressive than just Starbart. I also had um cone rod dystrophy, which does attack the peripheral. And there's just not enough research out there. It's so frustrating, you know, because it's rare disease, right? Isn't I think this is like rare disease month or the last day of the month? So speaking of rare diseases, yes, this one's rare. And um they can't pinpoint what genes cause it. So they can tell you basically, like, you have one of three or a couple of these different things, and maybe you'll go totally blind, maybe you won't. It it it presents itself differently, and lots of people, and you know, so you follow the groups, you you talk to people all over the world, and and their experiences are very unique, and so it's it's interesting. So anyway, my blindness it does impact how I operate, but it it doesn't define me. It doesn't it doesn't change my ambition. Um in fact, I have like these internal pressures that I realize for so long I've just been, you know, punching the gas on. I had to go straight through college, grad school, top of the class honors, you know, jump right into positions and always, you know, work my way up, um, had to exceed my quotas, um just always trying to do the next best thing. And it's not because of the blindness, because I've met other blind people that aren't, you know, wired like that, but it the blindness has definitely impacted that. So anyway, I I've led a successful almost 20-year career in um sales, marketing, just organizational um operations. And I I love people. People are such a value, um, an asset to any business, whether it's your employees, your customers. Um, it's all about that user experience. It's about problem solving, it's about digging in and really getting to the bottom of things, rolling your sleeves up, finding efficiencies. I could talk about this stuff for hours. I am a true um strategist, right? So I'm a mom of an amazing eight-year-old boy, 10-year-old daughter, a wife of 15 years. I am a sales and marketing strategist. Um, I love culture, organizational communications, and I happen to be blind. And like I said, that blindness, it it does affect how I operate, but it it it definitely there's a lot more beneath the surface for sure.

Taylor 12:43

Yeah, absolutely. And and uh that's uh kind of reminds me of a topic I love to talk about, which is person first versus identity first language. Oh yeah. And I I've kind of gone back and forth and because in one way I I don't want to feel like I'm embarrassed to be to be blind. So like I don't want to say, don't call me a blind person, but then at the same time, yeah, yeah. There's a lot more to me than just my blindness. So I don't want to be known known as Taylor the Blind Guy. Like there's a lot more to me, just as there's a lot more to you.

Cori 13:24

Right. It it it happens to be one of many characteristics. Um it's a it's a big impact, right? Um, I think for me, and I've been trying to figure out a way to really express how I feel, right? Like before we we had this, we I was you know trying to think about things and prepare for the interview. And it's like, okay, what well let me back up. So I I worked for Vespero, um, TPGI specifically. Um, for those who don't know, it's world leader in assistive technology for the blind and visually impaired, makers of Jaws. I learned so much. Um for about four and a half years I worked there. And it was very important that when we would write content or talk with individuals, you know, it was people with disabilities, not disabled people, right? And that's kind of like just with content, making sure you put the literally put the people first, people with disabilities. Um, for me, I think the way I look at it now, right? So I love, I love the scenario that we're in right now. You and I um we're having conversation, right? I would do this all day long with clients, prospective clients. I would have the luxury of them being able to get to know me without seeing me with my white cane. I fake it till I make it, as I say. Like I am maybe staring at the screen, the webcam in front of me, but it's a total blind spot. I see absolutely nothing. And I'm like talking to nothing, right? It's like one of those green screens or something, right? Um, but it allows people to get to know me before I might have three conversations and then be able to explain, yeah, I I really do understand how your uh blind users feel. I am one. I I use I use screen readers. I can help you um and my amazing team learn how to make your digital assets accessible, right? Now, let's flip the table. When I am in town locally, I'm I'm at the store and I have my white cane. Someone looks at me and in three seconds they determine who I am. And you can say that's not true as much as you want, but it's true. It it is what it is. They don't know that I have my masters, I exceeded in all my honors, I, you know, broke records in this and that and manage, you know, juggle a family, a household, a high pressure career. All I get is bless your heart, or good for you getting out here. Like it's just exhausting. And so the people first thing, if if there was one thing that I could omission, or if there just was one thing that I could leave as a legacy, is trying to explain to sighted people that there's more depth than they they would imagine, or for whatever reason, um, to get to get to know someone, uh it would be amazing if every first meeting you were blindfolded, right? I think they have like a movie or a show on that, like um, I don't know, one of those dating shows. But it's about um not making assumptions and leading with, hey, this person is highly educated, they're probably super creative, they're a problem. So like lead with that. Don't assume the worst. Um and ask questions. I'm I'm kind of rambling now, so you can stop me.

Taylor 17:10

But no, no, this this is your time to share your your opinions, and that's why I love this project is like what you're saying, like hopefully so many people will be able to see this and be then aware going forward. Oh, I always thought all blind people saw just nothing and just sat at home all day and didn't work. But now, if someone so far just up to this point knows like blind people go to school, people are blind can get around, go grocery shopping, and do all this normal stuff and be have careers that they're proud of, and oh yeah, like we were talking about our forms of blindness are different. A lot of people don't know that. Absolutely, that's really important for people to know. So and I love talking to different people with varying disabilities because I've gotten to know that some people prefer identity first, and some people don't.

Cori 18:11

We're all unique, it is not the same experience. Our our walk through life, like what we see is different. Some people see no light, some people see light, some people see shades. I mean, I get the question all the time, what do you see? And it's like, okay, I just said I'm looking at a a a whole nothing, but really it is something. It's like this bright, like little, there's like little dotty things going around. And then I see over here my monitor, another monitor, my my drink, my well, now I'm touching stuff, so I guess I don't see it. But you know, I the Perfeil's got some stuff going on, so that's good. And I'm I'm very blessed, grateful to have just the little bit I have. And I I I'm I'm I'm okay. You know what I mean? Like I want to have conversations about it. And so the other thing I was gonna mention, and then I'll move forward. But I love curiosity when I have children walk by me wherever I am, and they say, mommy, what's that? Or, you know, I'm walking and I hear a mom say, honey, get out the way. Like they think I'm like coming through with a blowtorch or something. It's like I'm I'm like poison or something, is how I feel the way they're and I know they don't mean that, but it's just like you're different, you're different, like is these light, you know, flashing lights going off. And I I would love for them to just sometimes I do. If I hear the kid ask the question, I'll say, Oh, this is my cane. I use it to know where I'm going because I can't see. So when it's in front of me, I move it side to side and I know if I can move or I need to adjust, you know, and I just really encourage um those again cited to ask questions. The majority, I can't speak for everyone. I I'm I'm totally open to helping others understand because there's a lot, a lot of interesting information and stories to be shared.

Taylor 20:01

Yeah, absolutely. And and I fully agree with that, with that thought process. And I uh it's interesting you talked about with the children. Like I I think that's really great that you do that, because what I'm really happy with is like my niece, I spent a lot of time with her, and she's gotten to understand me and my disability as she's gotten older and knows that yeah, she knows I'm blind, but she also knows I can still see to play with her and do all these things. So growing up, now she's gonna have this this mindset going forward that just because someone's blind or they have a disability doesn't mean they can I can't play with them or they can't like I can't be their friend. They they can't teach me anything. Like I think teaching kids at an early age and exposing them to these things is is great.

Cori 20:53

It's it's important, it's critical. I again, my and 10-year-old, uh I I'm not even there yet with them, I can tell you. Um what I mean by that is there's been more than a handful of times where they will say something like, Oh mom, you can't do that, you're blind. And it it gets me, it gets very fired up.

Taylor 21:16

I actually had that yesterday with my niece, so I get that. Yeah. I was like, all right, I could, but never mind.

Cori 21:22

Yeah, so I'm like, well, let me just explain a few things. I can do it, I do it differently or not as quickly. Um, so if you know, if it's important that we do this, let's do it. And I'm not gonna sugarcoat things and say everything's perfect and I can do everything you can do. No, there's frustrations, a heck of a lot of them, and and I'm sure we'll get to that. But going back to kids and like, you know, the future, the the next generation, like we don't have it. We don't have it figured out in this in this world that we live in right now. You know, you've heard I I live in a world that wasn't designed.

Taylor 22:00

for me it it it's not period i i go to uh a fast food well obviously i'm gonna draw on there but i go to a restaurant i you know go to the gym i go to my kids' school is everything accessible you know at um tpgi we talk about self um kiosk that you can use your yourself they don't exist around where i live um and you know the airports you should be able to go through that whole experience independently like we're not there yet and so number one it is hard for me to explain to my kids that I can do things when they see me facing challenges on a daily basis not because I can't but because there's no access or others' perceptions are skewed like the person who I give the credit card to them and then they give the receipt to my husband right next to me because why I don't know it's very frustrating but um anyway the the kids and and then understanding you know it it's just it's very important it's it's a cultural shift of thinking and just being mindful that there are lots of people with lots of differences figure it out together be curious ask questions don't assume oh you can't do that I love I love children right they're so flippant honest it's it's amazing and so yeah I I just it's important yeah absolutely and yeah the honesty I I do love it yeah at times it can be a little like a shot of the guy where like literally like you were saying and I agreed like because yesterday my niece asked me for help and I went to help her she said never mind you can't do it you're blind oh yeah and that was okay and one I was like in my head I didn't tell her because she already wanted to go ask someone else uh but in my head I was like I could have done that um yeah at the same time I'm like she's on this and she's open to learning about my blindness and like she'll like growing up when she was younger she would help me buckle her in her into her car seat so she's she's open to learning how to interact with me better. So I'm not gonna make her feel bad for being honest. Yeah yeah that's the thing like I'd appreciate I appreciate that they say it versus they think it and not say it right and that gives us the opportunity maybe it's not in that moment but it's at another time that we can circle back to it and have that conversation because yeah we're blind we we believe super strongly about advocating for blind people or people with disabilities but sometimes it's just not the right time or the place or maybe my energy's not quite there you know um and so it you find you find those moments teachable moments right uh whether whether it's your kitten for me my child um sometimes some of the people that are closest to me like that love me dearly they still don't get me they don't understand how I see they say things like I I'll say you know where's where's the cop it's right there right how many times do you get that oh my gosh I want to shake something I'm like can you be more descriptive do I have to go left do I go right do I take some steps forward again it's just those teachable moments um and and not not going into them like argumentative but just helpful reminder kind of thing yeah and I I love when I find myself in those situations out in the real world like if I get into conversation with someone and they they they like show me something they're like here's a picture of my kids and like or something will come up and I'm like oh I can't see that and then it'll just get into that conversation where I say I'm blind then a lot of times they're like what yeah I I get around without a navigation cane or a a guide dog so yeah they and a lot of people are used to seeing in media a blind person with uh dark sunglasses on or having white eyes for some reason. But yeah but I'm like yeah actually a lot of blind individuals get around just fine on their own and just because someone's looking at your eyes doesn't mean they're not blind and like it's taken me years to master making eye contact. For a long time I couldn't see faces and I would just look where the mouth is where the sound was coming from then just move up a little bit. That's okay why do you always look at my mouth?

Cori 26:55

I've heard that more times than I can count.

Taylor 27:00

Yeah it's it it is an interesting experience but having those opportunities to like inform people and when especially when they're receptive it's it's a really nice moment because you think to yourself all right that was great and now going forward they're gonna have so much more of an open mind when it comes to blindness and maybe even other disabilities.

Cori 27:22

Yeah and and and you have to do it when you're not too frustrated either like I I remember I was at the DMV I had finally buckled down and and realized I I need to get a handicap tag for our family car. You know that we'll park at the baseball field and I'll try and walk with my kids to the you know park and it's it's quite a ways away and there's a lot of traffic and it's just dangerous you know because I'm always like oh I can walk I don't need I don't need it I don't need it. But then there were when you have kids it it kind of it makes you think outside of you right it's like this isn't it just about me this is about my kids too. So anyway at the DMV I had printed out the document I guess to submit and um my mom had taken me to the DMV and she was in there with me. So the woman I didn't realize at the time she was look I I knew she was looking at the paper and then she was like is that lady with you and I said yeah and she's like can you ask her to come over here and I should have asked why but I didn't because my mind was in another space and I had had I don't remember the details of the day but it was a it was a long day. My mom comes over there she explains to my mom an issue that basically the form wasn't it was out of date. It wasn't the latest form that I was supposed to fill out.

Taylor 28:45

And my mom says why couldn't you tell her that you know like and so she um like you're not deaf yeah so she and her reason was oh well because she can't see see what I'm pointing out to you but it's like you let me decide if I need someone to verify it right like you do not have to let I I can make that decision I promise um so yeah lots lots of fun fun stories so uh again it's uh it's not to be made light of or joke of and I do feel pretty darn strongly like there's a there's so much there's so much opportunity for blind people that we're underutilized um you know like the statistics less than half for sure of um blind people are employed way less percentage are in leadership roles that is not because of lack of talent it's it's because of lack of understanding um yeah and like people not getting the right opportunities because of their blindness or even they get the right opportunity but they're not given the accommodations they need that's right that's exactly right the access part yeah now often I'll talk about the misconception behind accommodations like I've heard some say in in an inquisitive way it wasn't necessarily like oh that's unfair but they were like so why should you or someone else get these accommodations when I don't receive any accommodations and like yeah I get that but you also need to realize these accommodations aren't to provide an unfair advantage yeah they're reasonable they're called reasonable accommodations. Yeah it's just kind of level that playing field and give people disabilities the same access opportunities and yes and and it can be such little things like yeah and that's that's where it comes to the problem solving and being creative. And and people who happen to be blind often have really good and strong of those characteristics because we have to have to they have to grow up doing that kind of stuff and all like I've only been blind for seven years now going on seven and a half but in that time span I have developed so many skills I used to be I was never messy but I was never organized but now I am incredibly organized. Everything in my space is like where it is all the time and if you if you just ask me where something is in my space I know where it is right away because I'm yes incredibly organized and it's like that in my work as well like my file storage has to be very organized. Things have to be aptly named because so my screen reader can understand what things are. So having these these skills that you develop over the years because you're a disability is like one of those things where you can find find uh like a benefit out of your situation. Yeah at times it it can be unfortunate going through that but you also have skills and experiences that you have bettered you because of it.

Cori 32:11

Yeah you definitely use muscles that others don't have to use you know those brain muscles like just remembering information longer and multitasking and generally speaking I'm general I'm often two three steps ahead in every conversation because you just that's kind of how you have to prepare because you don't know you know so you're thinking okay if this happens I'll have to do this if this happens so you're you're just always thinking a couple of steps ahead in conversations oftentimes just because yeah you're holding a lot in the brain we don't have as many distractions either right like when you're in meetings and and you know like I don't know that these people are really listening here and they're on their phones and we I don't even know that or they're looking out the window and so I guess because we do have more more time in our head maybe yeah we just have a lot of depth for sure yeah and I I I do a lot of that too thinking ahead in the conversation and and it can be kind of a catch 22 because yeah I'm I'm being more prepared for like the possibilities but sometimes I'll think too far ahead.

Taylor 33:24

That's right and I forget where we were so you told us quite a bit about yourself um so especially uh professionally so what are some things outside of work like hobbies or passions of yours?

Cori 33:39

Well with two young kids that stuff kind of goes out the window for me anyway. I know a lot of moms that have some awesome hobbies and um no let me think uh yeah I mean it's really all about the kids they um they are in extracurricular so they're doing like track and field and you know going to their practices and going to their meets and uh my daughter does like drama and um piano and just you know helping her prepare for those things. I I I do love love all of those things. As a family we we like to go fishing. We're in southeast Louisiana so we do a lot of cooking outside like crawfish boils or just like making big batches of deliciousness in a pot. Not me my husband I'm not well cooking we'll talk about that later it's not my favorite although there's this really cool gadget it's called a Brava. I don't know if you've heard of it. It's amazing and it's truly accessible. It's it's not cheap but it it like change a blind person's life for with regard to cooking because it it's it's amazing. So when I do cook and I try to you know X number of days a week do that um I I use this thing and it's a total game changer because it's all you're able to use the app on your phone and I had tried previously you know the Instapots and all that stuff but there was always glitches or it wasn't really like a lock and load kind of plug and play thing you know you had to do like multi-steps and it was just ugh again this is me my blind person experience I know there's tons of blind people that love to cook. It's just I don't know it's a necessity not a hobby. So you were asking about hobbies though. Sorry I got so no you're fine.

Taylor 35:28

Yeah and and that's always interesting stuff to hear about because I've always wanted to get into cooking but it's it can be extremely challenging and that's something a lot of people don't know those like in their eyes maybe more menial tasks but for someone like us it may be a bit more challenging and it could be for slightly different reasons depending on the level of blindness but yeah yeah for sure some simple things we might have to do in a very different way and that's right that's part of what why we do that so we raise awareness that what people like us may go through and how we deal with things just to raise awareness of that because a lot of people may be may want to know but don't want to ask because they don't want to feel like they're offending or they're pitying or whatever it is. But now we can have a platform where we can share these kinds of stories and illuminate what that day-to-day life is like without that kind of pressure.

Cori 36:33

Yes I and again my perspective is just I'm an open book I love to share my story good bad ugly like whatever it it helps someone else better understand and and maybe they can apply that to others who have differences similar to me or totally not similar. You know a difference is a difference and a person is a person so learn to apply curiosity across all those different scenarios but um yeah so as far as hobbies go I I do like going fishing. I like um the the pool I love swimming I love um I'm trying to get into gardening my husband made this amazing like flower bed or not flowers I I was more into like growing food because I thought that was pretty cool to be able to grow and like eat your own food but I need I need to to try again because everything I grew or tried to grow some animal was eating it. So I got the stuff planted and I was like watering it every day and then every day and then one day my husband came home and he's like you know or he saw me water and then he's like boy there's no leaves on any of that stuff. And I hadn't really like bent over and touched it I guess in a couple days and yeah something was eating everything. So um that was like during a winter garden. So I'm gonna try a summer and he's gonna help me put some stuff around it so those little critters or whatever they were won't get in again. Knock on wood.

Taylor 38:05

We'll see yeah yeah it's actually something I've thought about getting into as well because before I lost my my vision I was uh I not right before but when I was younger I actually worked on a farm growing oh wow and like a lot of corn uh here in South Carolina that's a big thing a lot of farmland here so yeah corn kale collards all that kind of stuff um and I enjoyed it I did like a charity garden and I'd like to do more of that stuff but it's gonna be an it's gonna be an interesting venture like figuring out how to make that process accessible to me which can be kind of a fun challenge yeah yeah it can be done I know I I see um groups of uh blind gardeners all the time I hadn't really had much interest until um this past summer wait no I did it in the winter but it was winter crops I don't remember gosh it's been months now but because it was hot and then it was cold too so I don't even remember what month but um yeah I just had a little bit more time on my hands and it was something I was like you know what I'm gonna try this because I also feel very strongly about eating whole foods no not processed foods and I just thought it would be a good idea and hopefully maybe to get my kids involved but I need to uh tackle it again and see where it goes. Yeah that's where we we definitely differate I I don't care very much what what goes in my body. I'm like uh if it tastes good that's because you're still young yeah like until you're my age you're like wait this doesn't feel as good yeah I should I should probably start caring a bit more I mean um I still try to remain fairly active because that's how I was before manjury and I like to keep that going because one I just liked feeling healthier but also like for things I'm I'm sure you've experienced this in in the past like you have a higher risk of dripping over stuff. Yeah like if I if I take care of myself I'm much less likely to get hurt if I fall I mean very similarly with elderly people. Correct yeah like the more balanced you are and the more stable then easier is to handle those kind of things. So like now when I trip and fall I just catch myself get up and keep walking so yeah it used to be a hobby staying in shape but now it's it's kind of more of a necessity for independence and safety.

Cori 40:51

Yeah I've never thought of it like that actually um but yeah that's totally legit like every time I go to the doctor they do that fall assessment test which is normally for elderly people and I'm like well I'm blind so absolutely I probably fell but it's not because I am not balancer. But I think for me when it comes to oh that's kind of it's a frustration I have because they have a gym here in town that's amazing. I love it. And I was able to go for a little bit while I had outside family living with us temporarily but it's just one of those things where as a blind person you can't easily get to the gym independently or if you do it's a fortune to pay for a ride share. But I love doing the classes and they were so accommodating and they would like give me extra audio description or like send me the um the workout it was like a script kind of thing um and they would come and check on me and show me my the balance and all that stuff. So yeah I mean we we want to be fit and do things just like everyone else um for sure. And then when I'm home I live in a horseshoe the the road and it's like 1.2 miles and it's a rural area and there's not a lot of traffic at all. So I still feel very comfortable walking around my neighborhood and I've lived here for I don't know 15 years or so maybe 10 years I yeah 10. So I know the past it's like the path that's in my head. Now that's not to say there there might not be a pop a car or a uh lawn service uh uh trailer that pops up right when I'm about to slam into it but I I do feel comfortable uh that and that's my you know story someone else might might not and that's totally understandable I never leave home without my phone charged um just in case something that's probably smart for pretty much everyone you never know that's right that's right and yeah I I would say running would be like very very polite I I I generally walk um I I used to run I did but it's it's more just of a walk and sometimes it's just good to get the fresh air you know you gotta just get out of your routine because I can stay working all day long. When you talk about hobbies for so long that was really my hobby because working was where I've I felt valued I felt like I despite my blindness I could I could do this and I was really really good at it right whether I was a salesperson or a a leader um of a the sales and marketing team or you know writing processes helping CEOs or um owners like solve really big business problems. I I could do that and my blindness it did not hold me back and and sometimes the simplest of things right like are what frustrate me the most um you know uh laundry dishes cooking Cleaning the the the basic stuff. I mean I I kid you not when I go to the store and I'm like that cashier, like they I couldn't do what they do, right? Like, I mean it it would be with the right technology, I I could, but yeah.

Taylor 44:20

So when it comes to like dealing with your blindness, like I know we had talked about or you had said like some things sometimes you get frustrated, and we also shared some where it's kind of uplifting in some areas. So how overall would you describe how it affects your mental health? And do you have any like specific coping strategies for that kind of stuff? Absolutely.

Cori 44:46

It's a huge, it's a huge deal with mental health. Like I've absolutely have no shame saying that I have experienced anxiety and depression um throughout my adulthood. That doesn't mean every blind person has, right? Like that's just that's just me who I am. I'm wired a certain way. And whether you have history of it, whether you have a disability or not, like putting yourself first and making sure you're taken care of is so, so important. I don't care who you are, what, how healthy or unhealthy you are, like you have to put yourself first and make sure your your needs, right? Your physical, emotional, all of those needs, needs are met. Um, for me, I when my kids get off for the day, I sit down, I have my prayer and meditation app, I drink my coffee, I, you know, try and practice mindfulness, all that, all that stuff. Like it's a real thing. It's it's deep breathing. Holy, that's like super, super important for me, taking those little breaks. I mean, I there are days where I will go from meeting to meeting to meeting to meeting to meeting, like absolutely no break for 10 hours straight. And so even if it's just a 60 second, you know, those those three deep breaths, and then try to redirect your your thought process, like your shifting gears. Um, but I again I talk about moving more, eating the right things, all that impacts your mental health. Like more than I I read about this all the time because it's just it's so important to so many humans. And um, it's a topic I'm very, very passionate about for sure. Like you have to know your boundaries, and at the same time, you have to push yourself, you know. Like there's it's a balancing act. And for me, again, as a blind person, like you get this imposter syndrome a lot. Like, you're like, wait, I can't do this. I'm blind. Uh yes, you can. Like you have all of the capabilities, all of the talents, sometimes even better. So, like, don't sell yourself short. I tell my daughter, do it scared. You know, I'm not ready for you. Don't have to be ready. You don't have to do it, you don't have to jump in 110%, because that tends to be how I am, a perfectionist, and I've I've learned as I've gotten older to try and dial that back a bit. But um, do it, you know, just take the chance and and be persistent.

Taylor 47:25

Yeah, and I I think that's a great message. Like, don't be afraid to take on something new, even though it may be a little scary or overwhelming, especially in the beginning.

Cori 47:36

Like, I you can process it. Yeah, like your body processes. This is what's priority. Sometimes for me, like I thrive in chaos. Not again, that might not be everyone, but I really am good at like putting out fires, and there's like that quadrant, right? Like, is this a urgent priority or is it just nice to have? And so, like, if you can do it, try it, and you will be able to determine, you know, what what's it most important and and what brings you joy. Do oh, that's another thing. Do things that make you happy, like find those things that make you happy. Put yourself around people who make you happy, who make you better. Your environment is so flipping important. So if you're surrounding yourself with people that don't make you feel good or don't know you for who you are and and see the good in you, like find those people, find your people, find your people. They're there, they're they're out there, find them because they they can be life-changing.

Taylor 48:38

Yeah, that that is an amazing point. And I I I I tell that to everyone pretty much that I talk to whether they have a disability or not, like finding an absolutely environment where you thrive in, you feel supported, you feel happy, whether that be finding a new hobby, a new community to be a part of, but having that that just that environment where you feel like you can thrive, and yeah, and yeah, so I I think that's great. And like you were saying about how for your job, like you think that like kind of like a hobby, like you were saying, because you like could thrive at it, and I think that's that's really important for people to understand that absolutely so we're talking about environments we thrive in. So, what are some environments you thrive in, whether it be digitally or in per in real life?

Cori 49:37

Oh yeah. So, I mean, technology is everything for a blind person. It's it's my path to independence. I love hate technology.

Taylor 49:50

Um yeah, I get that.

Cori 49:52

It's it's a necessity, it's amazing when it works and when it doesn't work, I want to like throw it against the wall and watch it shatter. Um, but I guess I'm I'll just kind of talk a little bit about the technology I use. Yeah, because I I couldn't live without it, right? Um, I have an iPhone, so with that I use my voiceover, which means that there's a lot of swipe gestures going on, and my phone is constantly talking to me very, very fast.

Taylor 50:26

Yes.

Cori 50:26

Um, yeah, it's so funny watching people watch me with my phone, right? They're just like, did you really hear what that said? Yeah, I did. Because our brain has to adapt and we use those muscles.

Taylor 50:41

If it's if it's at normal speed, it can drive me crazy. I'm like, all right, hurry up.

Cori 50:46

It's like that's where we are. Like our our brains are just a couple more steps ahead.

Taylor 50:51

Because I feel like that's one of those areas where we can kind of close that gap. Like, for example, if say a supervisor gave out content for the team to review for an upcoming meeting, like for someone like us who can listen to it at like 175% speed or something like that, yeah. We can review that document a lot faster.

Cori 51:15

That's right.

Taylor 51:16

And so there's there's certain areas like that where I find interesting where we can almost get an upper hand in certain situations.

Cori 51:23

There are, yeah, there are absolutely um use cases where just with our hotkeys and our our keyboard, like we we can maneuver and work through things much at a at a much more uh rapid pace.

Taylor 51:39

So absolutely yeah, and also like we were saying, have kind of force growing up, like having to be more creative, like that is a skill that some people wish they had and takes a while to get better at. But when you grow up developing that skill, that's a huge asset going forward.

Cori 52:01

Yeah, and it's like, okay, what what problem do you have? Let's solve it. Like, I it does give you that confidence. Like, I can solve almost anything. Like, let's talk about it.

Taylor 52:13

Yeah, um, and just it's it can be fun because you don't some you can do so much troubleshooting in your head, you don't always need to be jumping around.

Cori 52:25

That's right. That's so right.

Taylor 52:27

That's why like whenever it comes to troubleshooting an issue, and even if it's something very minuscule, like a lamp's not working or something like that. Like, yeah, you don't need to see to think. And so, like, I just love being able to figure stuff out like that.

Cori 52:45

Yeah, kind of free. It's like a game, it's yeah, it's like yeah, I enjoy it too. Um, so yeah, my phone, like, never leave home without it. Like, I I lose it all the time. Uh even though I yeah, I think I have the little buy my phone, and um I should probably have something more.

Taylor 53:06

I'm always calling that a Siri. Where are you at? So you're saying you use voice control. Can you explain to any listeners what exactly that is?

Cori 53:17

Yeah, so voice over. Well, first I do enable Siri, which I'm sure most that use an iPhone have come across her where you can ask it questions and it audibly um give you answers. But with the voice over, with certain touch and swipe gestures, your phone will read aloud what someone sighted is seeing visually. And so it it gives us a huge equal, equal playing field. But that's only if the apps um or websites that you are scrolling through are built in an accessible format, right? So I can dive into all that super tech stuff, but for this discussion, um, yeah, I mean, it's just something that allows us to hear what you see. And I use it all day long. Whether, like I said, I have my prayer and meditation app, I access my social media, I'll order my groceries, I'll shop for my kids' uh school uniforms, I'll look at my kids' homework on it, um, almost anything. Um, some things are easier on a computer for me, but yeah, I mean, I'll do my banking, all of it, all by it telling me what what a sighted person can see. Um I also have meta glasses that I got uh this past year, the Ray-Ban metaglasses, and those are pretty cool. Um and you can take pictures. So, like if I'm on a field trip with my son, I can take pictures and hope that they're in the right frame. Um, and then it can describe things. You snap a picture and it'll describe for you what is in front of you, and then it interacts with the phone, right? So instead of having my ear pods, air pubs, whatever they are, in my ear, the phone, I'm sorry, the the sunglasses act as the ear, this the speakers. So that's pretty cool. Um, so I can take phone calls on them, and it's just handy to have, and it's hands-free, which is great, especially as a blind person who has to have a cane in one hand and want something free, have your other hand free. It's nice not having to have a phone to um tell you everything that you need to see. Um, on my laptop right now, I use Jaws. Um, as a professional, I've always had Jaws or fusion, I should say, which is Jaws and then um Zoom text combined. So the Jaws is the screen reader for the computer, and then Zoom text is the magnifier and color contrast. So that little bit of vision I have, I have my big monitor over here that makes it big. So, like I said, I love to shop. When there is something visual, I'll I'll sometimes try to see. But man, I love those descriptions when when they're done right, you know, the alt text, it's it's just a world of difference for someone who is shopping that can't see. Yeah, on on my TV, Netflix, all the television shows, I use audio description. My kids can't stand it. Ah, is there all that extra noise in the back? And uh have to fight them about it. They don't get it yet. Oh, my bump dots. It's not like technology, but it it it helps me use technology, I guess. Like my cool microwaves and my dishwasher. Actually, no, I know that by memory, but my microwave and my um dryer, washer and dryer have these rubber dots that you can stick. It's like a little sticker, and you can stick it on your start button, or you know, if there's certain buttons, like I use my start button, I I need to know where the number one is, and then I can identify where the rest of the numbers are. Having those bump dots allows me to be able to press like a just a screen type environment. If if if it's not tactile, like not raised dots or buttons, um, the bump dots are very, very helpful.

Taylor 57:38

Yeah, absolutely. It it's great when you have access to all these accessibility features, and it makes me very thankful to have access to them because there's many people in the world who don't. And as we were talking about technology, and you talked a little bit about the meta-ray bands. I'm curious what is your overall thoughts on how AI and accessibility kind of overlap?

Cori 58:04

Oh man, that's a great question.

Taylor 58:08

So because I get very mixed reviews from doing these interviews. Some people love it, some people hate it.

Cori 58:14

Oh my gosh, I love AI. I can't live without it. It's like my personal assistant. Um it has saved me so much time, and and I get it, like it's still in its infancy. There's still a lot of like unknowns about security. And again, I I'm I feel like I'm an open book. Obviously, I'm not gonna put super like you know, my bank account numbers in a AI or anything like that.

Taylor 58:45

We're not supposed to do that.

Cori 58:48

I don't know. I I mean, you probably do in some form or fashion if you think about it.

Taylor 58:54

If you're it probably is by now.

Cori 58:56

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But anyway, I I love it. Um, for me, the benefits outweigh any like cons. And it has just really allowed me to sift through information so much more quickly than I was able to before. It allows me, just in a in a you know, work capacity to get projects done quicker, um, whether it's like you know, three-year planning or um even PowerPoints. I mean, it's wild. PowerPoints can take a blind person a while. There's visuals, right? And you have to often pass it off to somebody to look at. You don't want to just go into it. Yeah.

Taylor 59:37

Yeah, with PowerPoints, it's very frustrating because especially when you're working with templates and it'll just run random text boxes and I'm like, and I'll have someone take a look at it. I'm like, what do you think of this presentation? You're like, all right, yeah, you've got a lot of empty. Let me ask you. Yeah. Let me just go through and clear out some stuff.

Cori 59:57

Yeah, yeah. Um, yes, we love our help. I don't mind asking for help. I know a lot of people who are blind and and want to be super independent and do it all. Sometimes I'm just tired. I'm exhausted, my eyes hurt. Like I just know that from an efficiency standpoint, if a sighted person can do something I can do in like one tenth of the time, it just doesn't make business sense or time sense or yeah, insanity sense to not do it that way. Yeah, my point being is that reasonable accommodations is allowing for a blind person to have someone look at their work because it and and just passing that off, that gives us a lot of time to work on what we can do, which oftentimes we can do things faster than that sighted person do in these areas. So it's just a you know, again, a balancing act. But back to AI, really, really like it. I had just been using it up until now to ask questions and you know, gather information. I have my projects and um, you know, potentially like helping me write content and all that. But I want to take it to the next level where it's you know helping me and my clients with different strategies for sales and marketing. And I haven't done it yet, but I'm I'm in the middle of doing it, so I'll I'll keep you posted on that. But um, from a specific accessibility standpoint, like I think the one thing that's still missing, and I will tell you, I don't know if this is ironic or what, but just this week on Facebook, I think I saw an advertisement about this exact technology that I'm about to share with you. But it's basically real-time audio description, right? So I want to be able to wear those metaglasses and just, you know, hit record. And as I'm walking, it's actively calling out to me what I am, what I'm seeing, right?

Taylor 1:02:01

Yeah.

Cori 1:02:02

Um, I know that like video gamers, they need that too, right? Because they're actively playing a game and you have to be able to have it real time describe what's happening as you're moving. And so for me, that's huge, like super, super, super huge. And that's where I hope this AI stuff can really help with that. So I'm a total proponent of AI. Um yeah.

Taylor 1:02:27

Yeah, I I fully agree. And I I do see some of the downsides here and there. Like some people say, like, if you rely on it too much, it could cause like cognitive decline. Yeah, you get a downsides. I'm not using it in a way where it's doing stuff I could have done otherwise. It's giving me I'm using it to do stuff without it, I wouldn't be able to do, and if I could, it would take me exponentially longer.

Cori 1:02:56

Exactly. It it's it's an assistant, and I will happily pass that stuff off.

Taylor 1:03:05

So I've I've loved talking about technology, but back more in the the real world. So, what are some things you wish others knew when interacting with you? Whether actually whether that's in person or like in a virtual meeting like this.

Cori 1:03:21

Well, I think to reiterate what I was saying initially is just not to assume the worst, but assume the best, if that makes sense. And if if you're unclear, uh be curious. I again, this is for people who know I have a disability, right? Sometimes, as I mentioned before, on Zoom calls or teams meetings, it's not apparent initially, but for those that know that I have a disability, um, it's very helpful if when they pass me, they tell me hello and and tell me who they are. It's hard being a mom and being blind. Like I feel like the people that in my life that knew me before my blindness, uh my severe blindness, right? Because it it digressed, you know, got worse over time. They know me, they know who I am. Um, but those I've met later in life, they're just very hands-off kind of. And it's it's not because I think they're rude, I think they just don't know what to say or don't know what to do, so they don't do anything. Um, but then and then there's some people that I have known, and they'll walk right by me, and I I will be able to determine that because I hear them talking or something. So it's like, you know, just tell that person hello. Um, tell them your name. That always helps to immediately identify. Because even my sister will be like, hey, and we're I'm somewhere where I'm not expecting her. And I'm like, wait, who, what, who are what are you doing here? You know? Um vivid description is super helpful, right? Um and you know, not saying, look at this, look at that, or you know, if if you're in a meeting with a large group of people, don't assume that everyone can see. I mean, there's a lot of people with some form of disability. A lot of people learn differently. Some might have situational disabilities where, you know, maybe they were got their eyes dilated. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe they can't see as well as they normally do for just a little while.

Taylor 1:05:31

Or maybe they're having technical difficulties or they're on their phone, so they can't view the screen.

Cori 1:05:37

Absolutely. And so give it that extra description. Yes, yes, yes. Um, we love the description. Um, when it comes to now, at the same time, I don't care about again. I'm a business, I'm a businesswoman. I I want to I want to know the meat and the potatoes, the details. I I don't necessarily care about. Some pretty decorative, you know, although um image. But again, that's me. Maybe another blind person might want to know all the details about that. But yeah, don't lead with curiosity. I think that's important because curiosity, it sparks um opportunity. And I feel like assumptions, they just squash it. They they squash opportunity.

Taylor 1:06:28

Yeah, yeah. So I know I think you may have said something about it earlier, but I'm curious if you want to expand on. Are you like a part of any community, whether it be formal, informal, with other blind individuals?

Cori 1:06:45

That's a great question. Not really, actually. What do you mean?

Taylor 1:06:56

Um, well, I mean like there are certain like I like with my last interviewee, he is involved in like foundations for his disability and stuff like that. And I got you. Online groups on like LinkedIn and Facebook and other stuff.

Cori 1:07:13

Absolutely. Yeah. I I mean I'm members of you know professional blind people on LinkedIn and on um Facebook. They have moms who are blind or people, uh blindness and ai. And yeah, I I absolutely um subscribe to all kinds of different um channels of information, right? Because I I am that person that loves to research and and before I make decisions, right? I want to know all of the the facts. But no, I I am not formally in any um capacity with um any organization specific for blindness um at this time.

Taylor 1:07:56

Gotcha, and yeah, it's it's certainly not anything that's necessary. Uh, but like I just know some people who uh like, for example, I've done some interviews with some autistic people, and some of them have shared the sentiment that they enjoy being around people in a similar situation as them because they can relate to daily experiences and they interact in similar ways.

Cori 1:08:23

And yeah. I um left my job of 14 years to work at Vispero, the world leader in assistive technology for the blind and visually impaired. And during that time, it it was absolutely mind-blowing and amazing because for the the time that I was there, I worked with, I kid you not, the most brilliant blind people in the universe. I mean, these are the blind people that are making the assistive technology for others. They are they're brilliant um engineers and strategists, and um, I mean, it the the best of the best with this assistive technology and not just the stuff we sell, but all of it. And that's our branch to independence, right? And so I learned so much. It like really upped my game when it came to technology. And I have so many friends, colleagues that I continue to uh keep in touch with that absolutely get me. You know what I mean? So I I totally understand that need to be around people that that get you because those, as I mentioned earlier, closest to me don't don't often get it or understand it. It's hard to describe or explain. So yeah, I'm very happy to um to have those individuals that I can call friends and and colleagues and still connect with.

Taylor 1:09:54

That's awesome. So what are some accessibility barriers barriers that you face, like in the real world?

Cori 1:10:03

It's not even the accessibility barriers that are the most frustrating. It's the perception of of the environment, of the people in the environment. Like if others could just better understand or or have willingness to be open-minded about people with disabilities, the experience could be so much better, right? Like, yeah, the the checkout at so-and-so wasn't accessible. So I couldn't plug in my earbuds and and go through the process on my own. But if the staff at that store were trained and understood to ask, hey, I see you have a cane there. Is there anything I can how can I help you? Or in your case, you don't have a cane, but you say I'm blind. I I want those staff members to know how to respond. And that's there's a big gap there. And so for me, I I want to be able to help organizations, you know, bridge that gap and and just understand how to work through those different um those different cases.

Taylor 1:11:18

Yeah, and I think that's great because I I agree. I feel like it's more on the human side, and yeah, it's not like a willing ignorance, it's just a if you a person hasn't had someone like themselves or someone they're close to be affected, I think that can be that's a lot of times what causes some of those misunderstandings and stuff. It's just uh just some people having been exposed to it.

Cori 1:11:47

Right. I was at a store the other day with my white cane and all they had open was self-checkout. It wasn't accessible, so I said, Hey, I need a um regular aisle, can someone check me out? And so the woman went and got the manager and said that I needed someone to check me out because I had cash. Like she automatically assumed, and I guess the kiosks said that they weren't taking cash because I didn't see the sign, but that's what she communicated because she thought I had cash, but it had nothing to do with cash, it had to do with I'm blind, and I did not go into the detail of it, so maybe that's my bad. Maybe I need to provide more information than I normally do to someone and not maybe me as a blind person, not assume they know. I don't know. Because, like you said, when when you share with people, they they are generally very open and accommodating. It's just a matter of, oh, I didn't know. Um, yeah. So yeah, just that basic kind of understanding and training, like every everyone should have some kind of disability etiquette, disability 101. Um, and and and for me, it's it's pretty dang simple. It's like, how can I help? Some will want your help, some will not. And and that's just go with it, you know. I as a as someone who's very stubborn, I don't like asking for help. Um, but you have to just let it go for the the greater good, like whether it's you know, I gotta get a ride here for the kids, just suck it up, Corey, or for time, you know, you're you're short on time. Yeah, you could figure it out, but just ask, you know? And by you bringing awareness to your disability, it's helping others with a disability. When when you explain or or go through that, that that individual that you, you know, worked with or discussed your disability with now knows how to work with others potentially, right?

Taylor 1:13:48

So yeah, and that that's a big reason why we're doing this, because hopefully every single person who watches this going forward will have more compassion than understanding when interacting with a blind person. They will have that knowledge that all right, not all every blind person is the same, and it might be helpful if I tell them who I am and all these different things. So it's it's very valuable having you share your your uh your thoughts on all this.

Cori 1:14:21

Awesome. Well, it's great to be here with you. Appreciate it.

Taylor 1:14:24

Yeah, absolutely. So before we head out, is there any like one main piece of advice you would give to others living with blindness or to people who want to help out when interacting with people with blindness?

Cori 1:14:39

Yeah, sure. Yeah, as far as those who have blindness, be persistent, be aggressive with whatever your goal in life is, whatever you're doing, just go for it, give it a shot, fail fast, fail forward, you know, that phrase that they say. Don't be afraid to try something and and and just see, put yourself out there, be comfortable being uncomfortable. Someone once told me that. Um, but it it it does make a lot of sense. Like, do it scared, like I said earlier, like don't be afraid, don't have that imposter syndrome. Like, you can do whatever you put your mind to it, you might have to do it differently. It might be hard at first, but given the right circumstances, environment, um, and there are lots of resources out there. Like, if you're not sure what that looks like or how that could be, you know, lean on those resources that can help you get to that success in whatever it is, whether it's your career or your just general, general life, right? And then as far as just the general population goes, I think you'll know what I'm gonna say here, which is what I've said multiple times, is to um not judge a book by its cover, right? Just um lead with curiosity and openness and assume positive depth. Um, and you will be delighted.

Taylor 1:16:12

Wonderfully put. Uh, thank you so much, Corey, for for joining us for this. And thank you all so much for listening. And uh we'll see you all next time for a day in the life.

Cori 1:16:23

Bye.

Taylor 1:16:24

Thank you all for joining us while we explore accessibility and disability. If you enjoyed this podcast, check out more episodes and show notes at accessiblecommunity.org slash podcasts. Remember, be accessible, be inclusive.